Nick Houpt: 0:01

Welcome back to the Life Well Balanced Podcast, where we explore the stories and strategies that help us build meaningful, purpose-driven lives. Today I'm joined by Kimberly Schaefer, entrepreneur, mentor, former Fortune 100 leader, and someone I've admired for nearly a decade. Kim built a thriving home care franchise, sold her company, and is now helping founders, students, and leaders rethink what healthy success looks like. This conversation is rich with wisdom about business, partnership, reinvention, and learning to put yourself back into your own life. In this episode, we cover entrepreneurship with intention and how to choose the right franchise or venture. Building a business with your spouse, including boundaries, communication, and shared leadership. Mentorship that actually works, plus how to recognize your blind spots and hire for your weaknesses. Reclaiming balance after burnout and why reinvention at any age is not only possible, but powerful. This episode is an honest look at leadership, reinvention, and what it really takes to build a life well balanced you're proud of. So take a breath, open your heart, and settle in. This is the Life Well Balanced Podcast with Kimberly Schaefer and me, your host, Nick Haup. We're also sponsored by IV Lux Infusion, a luxury mobile IV hydration service that brings wellness straight to your doorstep. Whether you're recovering from a long weekend, preparing for peak performance, or just need a boost, their licensed medical professionals deliver hydration and nutrients tailored to your body's needs. Think of it as a premium self-care administered safely and comfortably wherever you are. IV Luxinfusion, wellness redefined. Book your session today at IV Luxinfusion.com. And don't forget to use the promo code LIFEWELLBANS. This is the Life Well Balanced Podcast with me, your host, Nick Halb.

unknown: 2:26

A life well balanced for me.

Nick Houpt: 2:28

For me, a a life well balanced is simply life well balances. I think a life well balanced is Kim Schaefer. It is very good to see you.

Kimberley Schafer: 2:38

Hello, it is very good to be here.

Nick Houpt: 2:40

It has been a while. I uh I always am very excited when we can get together.

Kimberley Schafer: 2:47

Thank you.

Nick Houpt: 2:48

And it's been a pleasure knowing you for the years that we have. But thank you so much for coming into the Life Well Balanced Podcast Studio.

Kimberley Schafer: 2:58

My pleasure, thank you. And years it has been. I was I was pondering that while getting ready to come join you today. So I sold my company three years ago.

Nick Houpt: 3:07

So that's three years ago.

Kimberley Schafer: 3:08

That's three years ago already. Plus, we owned the company for six, and you and I met fairly early on in my company's tenure. So we're way past five, probably getting closer to nine or ten years of knowing each other.

Nick Houpt: 3:28

Man.

Kimberley Schafer: 3:28

If you can believe it. I think I always had the gray hair, but um, I definitely have more, so you're in good company.

Nick Houpt: 3:38

My wife, it's funny. We uh you know how your phone pops up memories of stuff.

unknown: 3:44

Yes.

Nick Houpt: 3:45

It was like when we first started dating, and she's like, You don't have any gray hair when we started dating, and I'm like, so it's your fault.

Kimberley Schafer: 3:54

Don't blame it on Olivia.

Nick Houpt: 3:57

She's amazing.

Kimberley Schafer: 3:58

She is amazing.

Nick Houpt: 3:59

So I want to start by acknowledging you. You are such an amazing person. And any time that I've ever reached out to you for just fun, getting together, having dinner, coffee, we've gotten together, our families have gotten together for dinner. And even in times of struggle where I was looking for a job or some kind of financial burden, you were always there to connect me with someone to help me move forward. And even when I started new endeavors trying to figure different things out of multiple streams of income, you have connected me with high-level people saying, Hey, I don't know if they'll be able to help you, but I know they've been in this industry for a long time, so I'm sure they'll have some good advice. So you have always just been there to support and help me level up or move forward. So I just want to acknowledge you for that.

Kimberley Schafer: 5:02

Oh, well, thank you. It's my pleasure. It's good karma, it's been a lot of fun.

Nick Houpt: 5:07

Yep. We've worked together with a bunch of stuff, so it's just been wonderful knowing you.

Kimberley Schafer: 5:12

I feel the same. And you were very, very helpful to our business back in the day. Um, when we were new to our industry of home care, you you were no stranger to the biz. You had been in the in the market and in the industry for a long, long time, and you made us very welcome. And it was a great collaboration. So thank you.

Nick Houpt: 5:33

Thank you for that. So we start with a big question.

Kimberley Schafer: 5:39

Okay.

Nick Houpt: 5:40

And it's who, what, and why? And the reason we start with big questions is because we want big answers. And I think it lays the foundation of a really great conversation. So, who has inspired you to become the person you are? What experiences have you gone through that led you sitting in this seat right now? And why do you do what you do?

Kimberley Schafer: 6:08

There is a lot of similarity between the who answer to the question and the why answer to the question, I think, because it all comes down to people and relationships in the end, I think. And I never would have said this for many, many years, but a who definitely has to do with my parents. As much as I wanted to be an independent person and do my own thing and wanted to do that yesterday, all of those things are true. But in fact, as I get older and wiser and more reflective, they had so much to do with my early success. They had such a focus on education and the transformative power of education. Um, I went to a wonderful university and they just instilled the importance of that in me and made it so that I could go to that school from a financial perspective. So they're definitely part of the who. In college, I met my spouse and my true better half, whom you know well. Um, and he's definitely at the top of the list as far as who is concerned. And as trite as it is, I would say for both of us, our big who um at the moment are our twin daughters. It is very true that you're only as as happy as your least happy child. And they are they're at the core of every decision we make. Where to live, where not to live, when can we travel? When can we not travel? What hours can we commit to some endeavor? What can we not? What would be best for them? How can we help them? When do we need to step away from them? So they are our most important who, as trite and cliched as that might be, and they're very much our why. They're at the core of everything. But I suppose that is exactly as it should be. Awesome.

Nick Houpt: 8:12

Awesome. With everything you've done, you've been an entrepreneur for many, many years. A long time. And I've always appreciated that about you, and you have always been an outside of the box thinker. And even with a home care business, I think the way you guys ran it is why it was so successful and you were able to step away from that business. Can we just jump into some business stuff? Sure. On what are some tips of someone that because you guys purchased a franchise and started it here in town? What are some tips that you would give someone interested in purchasing a franchise and wanting to start and become their own boss? Can you give some insight on what that would look like and some ideas of what to do?

Kimberley Schafer: 9:08

Yes, I can definitely talk about the franchise piece and how to become your own boss. I think the best way for me to do that, though, is to take a little bit of a detour and talk about entrepreneurship and do I even see myself as an entrepreneur? And I think for a long time I didn't. I worked for large fortune 50, 100 companies names. Most people in the business world or just in the world will know Chase and Financial Services, IBM and Microsoft in tech. These are big companies. And I was very much a company person, wanted to be part of the team, wanted to be striving and successful and a leader, but to be in those worlds, you are very much a cog in a large machine. So it's somewhat with that in mind, it can seem odd for you and I to be talking about entrepreneurship and talking about myself as an entrepreneur. But you are right. I did sort of always push boundaries. Can we try this? Well, what about this? And whether it was successful or not, you're right. I had that mindset, even in fairly large, conservative, in some ways, very traditional bureaucratic companies, wonderful companies who have done many great things for the world, which is one of the reasons I worked for them for so, so long. But yes, it is possible to be an entrepreneur and have an entrepreneurial mindset wherever you may be in whatever industry or company or situation. So I put that out there because while franchise or being your own boss and an entrepreneur with no safety net might not be for everyone, it is possible to innovate and be entrepreneurial in whatever your calling and job may be. So with that, I like that answer. Thank you. Um so with that, let's talk about franchising. So as someone who had been in big companies and learned a lot of best practices and seen how a lot of things work and don't work well. If there's one thing I took away from that is that you don't have to do everything yourself for it to be a job well done, for it to be successful. I think that's an important learning and tip for anyone who wants to be a founder or CEO or a business owner or all of the above. You don't have to do everything yourself for it to be a job well done. In fact, it probably won't be a job well done if you try to do absolutely everything yourself. And I am a big believer in that. And as tempting as it may be to just, I'll just do that thing. Or I know exactly how that should go. As tempting as that might be sometimes, it is important to leverage best practices, a tool, infrastructure that may not be your own. So I don't struggle with that notion. I think it's very, very important and powerful and can help you hit the ground running if you're interested in being a business owner. So to me, a franchise made a lot of sense because a franchise is all about here, take this model, take this infrastructure, take this best practice, and now build your business following this construct. I don't struggle with that. I think there's a lot of power in that. I do believe it helped us hit the ground running, as I said. I do believe it allowed us to grow and scale faster because we we embraced the model and built upon it. I think not every franchise is as strong as others as far as what that model and what those elements are. So I think it's important to be choosy. Not they're not all created equal. Um, but for us, it made a lot of sense, especially in an industry new to us, to have the power of a global franchise behind us. Now that said, we were the only um one of our kind in our franchise network in the Northeast Florida market. We are entering a competitive space with zero customers, zero caregivers, zero dollars except what we were investing in it ourselves. Um so there was still a lot of adrenaline pumping opportunity to um make our own way and build our business the way we want it to. So for us, it was the perfect balance. I don't know that it would be for everyone, but it made so much sense to us at least to work with a franchise. But you do need to be on board with the constraints and the structure they're going to be put in place for you. Not everything is your call.

Nick Houpt: 14:29

So if I'm looking for a franchise, you said make sure you pick the right one. What do I look for? How do I know if it's the right one? Are there markers to look for? Do you use a broker? How does it work?

Kimberley Schafer: 14:45

Yes. So we did not use a broker. We had been in the business world. My spouse and I have our MBAs, my spouse especially, and his financial services background knows his way around any kind of spreadsheet cash flow analysis. So the financial side of the financial health of the franchise is important to assess. And he had the tools to do that. And then I was very concerned with the marketing aspect of it. What was their messaging? What was their philosophy? How were they speaking to clients? Did they have professional web presence? Did they seem current? Did they seem cutting edge in their practices? Did they understand their marketing funnel? How do they help business owners fill that marketing funnel? All that was the pieces I assessed. Um, you're also going to need to look at terms and conditions of the contractual arrangement that they're proposing between you as the franchisee and the franchisor. Is that an arrangement that you're legally and financially comfortable with? There is upfront investment involved in franchise. Some people take out a business small business loan to be able to achieve that. We had scrimped and saved for many years, so we handled that on our own. It's very important to, I believe, vet a franchise in terms of how their other owners feel about the franchise? Is the relationship with corporate headquarters collaborative? Is it does it breed conflict? Are owners happy? Are owners dissatisfied? Are they growing and scaling successfully? Are they struggling? What kind of support do they get and not get? Um, what kind of autonomy do they get and not get? So all of that I think is really, really important to assess. So you have to come at it from every which way, every which angle that might be important to you as a prospective owner.

Nick Houpt: 16:56

So coming into owning and operating a franchise and everything, what was the biggest surprise once you started going?

Kimberley Schafer: 17:07

The biggest surprise. I don't know if it was the biggest surprise, but it was certainly the biggest, most present reality for us is that wow, we are in this with out a net. We are building this from nothing. It was a very big change for us to go from hardworking but essentially cushy lives as corporate managers and directors to nope, everything is coming directly out of your pocket, nothing gets done unless you're doing it. It it just the sort of the reality and shock of that was um huge, huge, but very empowering, which is maybe seems like a contradiction. But once you've kind of learned to feel that fear and do it anyway and make it work and be true to how you want to run a business, then you feel very powerful, like you could do anything. If you can do this, you can do anything. And I think that is how we felt about it after we got our feet under ourselves.

Nick Houpt: 18:22

So, what made you want to switch and change up from the cushy job that you could do in your sleep to we don't even know anything about this industry, but let's start a franchise here. And and one thing I want to touch on too that I didn't even put in my questions, but I just thought of it down the road is running a business with your spouse.

Kimberley Schafer: 18:46

Yes.

Nick Houpt: 18:47

And so what made you transition, want to switch? What pain points did you have or excitement did you have to make you say, let's run a business together?

Kimberley Schafer: 18:56

Yes. So back to our who and our why from our very beginning of our conversation came down to our family. When at the time we decided to make this decision, our girls were about eight years old. We lived in Northeast, Northwest, sorry, the great Northwest, Seattle, Washington, just outside of Seattle, Washington. So that is the corner of the country where we hadn't we had many friends and many happy memories and times and a very, very good life there, but not a single family member lived anywhere near us. Um, and as our girls were getting older and passed a point where it was all about us and the parental connection, we were starting to feel like, gosh, we really need to start connecting with the rest of our family, um, their godparents. We're in Virginia, my parents in Florida, Keith's parents in Maine, family all up and down the East Coast.

Nick Houpt: 20:10

You're like, where's the sunniest place? Yeah.

Kimberley Schafer: 20:12

I said no matter where we move, we will have more sun and we will be closer to our family. And that's probably a good thing to start planning to do. How do we want to do that? When should we do that? Et cetera. So that was that was, of course, the biggest driver. Um I would say it also came down to job satisfaction. Yes, our job, our jobs were challenging, worked very hard, but we were good at them. We were successful, we didn't have financial worries. But we were also, as I said before, cogs in very big wheels. And sometimes it's just very frustrating to at least for an entrepreneurial-minded person to feel like they're making a difference. And for someone who has spent their career in marketing and customer service and wanting to be close to the customer and make a difference for that customer, whether it's a company or a family or an individual, it's sometimes hard to feel that connection. Even if you're doing even if that's your job title, it's hard to feel that connection. Well, all of that goes away when you own your own business because everything you do matters. Everything you do touches the customer and you see that impact directly every minute. Everything matters. Um, so owning your own business is definitely the cure for feeling like you're not having an impact with your job. Everything matters to the customer, and everything that you do has a customer impact directly when you own your own business. So that was believing that that would certainly be the case, which it certainly was, wasn't the other big driver for us deciding to chuck it all, move cross country, get some sun, get closer to family, and take our shot at running a business. We were of an age and stage that we said, if not now, when? So the rest is history.

Nick Houpt: 22:24

Yeah, Libby and I, we struggle with that now with having Attica 2, and we don't have any family here. But I can't tell you we're not gonna move to the Pacific Northwest. We're not gonna move to Pennsylvania. So we're we're like, you need to come here or we'll meet you in the mountains. We'll get a middle. Nice in between. But it it's a lot of work when you have those young children and you don't have the any help and things like that, too. And you you kept saying making a difference. And I I've had this conversation with Olivia also with other jobs that I've had in the past where I just felt like I wasn't making a difference, big corporations, and I'm just like I just I'm not feeling it. And she would always tell me, you're making some kind of difference with every contact you have.

Kimberley Schafer: 23:22

I think that's true.

Nick Houpt: 23:23

And it's hard to look at it that way sometimes, especially when you're just going through the motions and trying to figure it out and be happy with what you have and everything. But what does making a difference look like to you?

Kimberley Schafer: 23:39

I think there's a there is both a very good side of making a difference, and there's a very there's a cautionary tale or a difficult side of making a difference. For us, making a difference, I think to your point, is doing something good for a client, for a family, for a situation, and being able to perceive that impact. I think what you're speaking to is I was doing good in my job. I was making a difference. I just didn't always feel it. So for me, an essential part of what it is is to be able to perceive it and to know it and to feel it. So I think that's really important. I think the the sort of the dark darker side of it is it can be, if you really do care and you really are making a difference and you're very, very aware of it, it can be very, very difficult to sort of set boundaries and turn work off. And that was very difficult for us in home care. As hard as we both worked throughout our careers, I felt like we we were able to strike a good balance. I do not feel we were always able to strike a good balance when we owned a home care company. One, because when you're at the top, everything rolls up. Contrary to gravity, everything rolls up. And if something ultimately didn't get done by someone else and there was no one else, well, then it was us. Um, whether it was 3 a.m. or Christmas morning or whatever the case may be. So, and when it's home care, when it's someone's safety and well-being in the balance, it's very hard, at least it was for us, very hard to say no or to do anything other than help. So that's it can it that's can be a lot.

Nick Houpt: 25:36

I know I've met up with Keith before and he was in Scrubs and he's like, I just came from a client's house, we had a call out, someone had to show up, and it was me who had to do it. And I think that kind of ties into a lot of what I preach with my co-author Justin with tilting the balance and everything, is because you can't always have everything in perfect balance all the time. Sometimes you have to shift and focus on what's important in the moment. And I think that's what you guys did, especially with being business owners. And we've had some people on here too that are entrepreneurs and business owners, and I said, Well, how do you shut it off? And they're like, I don't shut it off. But that's happiness to me. I'm always on the go. I'm always thinking about new ideas. I I'm at a point in my life where it's not putting off any other responsibilities, so it's completely fine. So I think with life, you have different seasons that you roll through where you can focus on your business more. You can focus on your romantic partner and your marriage more, or there's times where your business is requiring all of this effort, but then you also know that that's gonna change down the road too, because you're implementing systems, softwares, like you said earlier, with owning your own business, you don't have to wear all the hats, but you're gonna have to wear a lot of them at least for a while, right?

Kimberley Schafer: 27:05

It's true.

Nick Houpt: 27:05

And I've always been a proponent of paying someone else that's better at it than me. Because I there's so many things where I'm like, that will take me forever to where someone else can come in and get it done in a quarter of the time. So ultimately, at the end of the day, it's costing more money to do it yourself than it is hiring someone to do it up front for you. What are some things that people can implement into their daily lives, into their work, into their relationships that could benefit and free up some time or some space for them to focus on other things that are important in that moment.

Kimberley Schafer: 27:56

First of all, I completely agree with the point. You do not need to be an expert in everything. I would offer that you cannot be an expert in everything. So why not get the best person for the job? And sometimes that's well worth the investment. And to your point about, you know, how can you make that happen? You can certainly do that in business. Hire the vendors that can do that. I've heard people say hire your weaknesses. I agree with that. And I also think it can happen in your personal life. Let's cut to the chase. It's very important to create space, find balance and hire your weaknesses. And you do not have to be an expert in everything. You do not have to do everything yourself. It's a great way to help you find balance at home and at work to hire the best and take a little bit of pressure off yourself.

Nick Houpt: 28:53

Hey, sorry for the interruption. I hope you are enjoying this episode. If you want to live a life well balanced, be sure to pick up our book, Tilting the Balance, a guided workbook for clarity, purpose, and transformation, available at tiltingthebalance.com. Now, back to your episode. So, how do if I'm someone that's running a business, operating a business, or even working for a company that does have the opportunity to be able to hire someone in an area they're weak in or not interested in? All egos out the door. We were talking about egos off camera. How do I know where I may have a weakness in my skill set? Or how do I let the ego go to bring someone else in to help me?

Kimberley Schafer: 29:50

Yeah. You do you do have to be willing to let go. That's by definition um a requirement of getting some help. It's always a good idea, in my experience, to hire that person or engage that person before you desperately need them because you can be a bit more thoughtful and planful and proactive and reactive.

Nick Houpt: 30:15

Okay.

Kimberley Schafer: 30:17

And you have that much more of a runway to ramp them up properly so that you feel you can let go in all the right ways. I think it's just necessary. If you're not sure what your weaknesses are, which was another part of your question, hope you're going to be a better entrepreneur for being able to take a hard look at yourself and figure out what those weaknesses are. I think that's very, very important. But getting back to something I know you wanted to dig into further, speak to someone you trust. In my case, that was always my spouse. Um, we are very collaborative. I think we are we complement each other well. He's strong in things I'm not, and vice versa. So that's easy for in our case to have my spouse be my CFO, my partner in crime, as we ran that business together. That was very natural and effective. And that's who I would have asked if I said, boy, do you think I should keep doing this on my own or get some help? What weakness should we shore up next? I wouldn't be shy about asking that of my spouse and co-owner. And um, I would say any owner is gonna be better off for having someone they can have that conversation with.

Nick Houpt: 31:42

Okay. Now let's dive in a little more to owning and operating a business with a spouse. What do you see was the biggest challenge or something that required some work with working together with your Sure.

Kimberley Schafer: 32:05

So I I have a a few times in this conversation talked about the two two sides of a coin. There's this, but on the other hand, there's that. And I think that's true for my answer to this question as well. So the strength of working with my spouse was also its challenge. So we were we were very collaborative and I think very effective and very engaged. I think the challenge that we ended up having to work through was how do we turn it off? It was so helpful to have someone who you trust, who's super effective and professional, who understands what you're going through as an owner of a high growth company in a very challenging industry that you care a whole lot about. Those are a lot of intense things. And to have someone who gets that and is in it with you is very, very helpful and powerful. Again, the flip side is it can be hard to not be thinking about it every minute when the person next to you can have that conversation with you so very well. Um, so just as a silly specific anecdote, um, we had to implement a no discussion of the company after 10 o'clock.

Nick Houpt: 33:29

I would think it'd be earlier.

Kimberley Schafer: 33:31

Yeah, we and then we started dialing it back when we could. But, you know, for my spouse, it was sort of his decompression was, and I'm gonna say all the kind of things that are on the top of my head that I'm thinking about and worried about or just need to do tomorrow for the business. And my um my perspective was gosh, I really can't even hear this. I can't think about this, or I'm not gonna be able to sleep because I'll be thinking about it all night long. So we had a 10 p.m. rule. We tried to dial it back to 9 p.m. with mixed success, but just that is one very specific and personal way we found we had to create a boundary. We were very, very down with doing it and respecting that boundary, but it was one of those things we wouldn't have expected. We who would have thought you'd need a rule like that in your home.

Nick Houpt: 34:25

With me, uh Olivia and I don't even really have a business together, but I'm just so fired up all the time, high energy, to where she'll come down to have her coffee, and I'm throwing numbers at her, and I'm like, oh well, if we would do this and this, and then it would generate this, and we could go through that, and and she's just looking at me like Coffee, please. Haven't even had coffee yet. And you're throwing numbers at me or talking to me about book sales or whatever the case may be. So so even when you and your spouse are in separate businesses, there's still that that overflow of ideas or worries or stresses that come from operating that business. So when you are in that with your spouse, you're like, I don't even have to send an email, you're right here. How does that look with communication of keeping the business and your romantic life separate? What does the communication look like? You know, you're you're having a glass of wine and you're like date night, and then you're like, oh, caregivers. Yeah.

Kimberley Schafer: 35:47

You definitely don't want to discuss that on date night. It will not end well. You just have to set that, set and respect that boundary for each other. It's it's it can be an effort when your your work and your company is so all consuming. Um, but it's just so important. It's so much easier said than none, but it is so important. It has to be prioritized. So you just have to figure it out. I would think it would be even more that would be even more true when your spouse isn't in the business because they can't relate maybe quite the same way, and probably therefore need that much more space from it to feel like they're still connected in all the ways they want to be to you. So I think it's very, very important hygiene, if you will, to just make date night, date night and work work as best you can. All that said though, it it was such a gift to have my spouse as my co-owner. I know there's no one who could have done a better job, thank goodness. We were in it together. Um, it was a huge part of our success. I don't think it's right for everybody. In fact, when um when I first bought into the franchise, it was just me. The initial plan was to have it be just me. That was very short-lived. I realized that, you know, we're we're better together, we're stronger together. And my spouse agreed with that as well, but it took a minute to get there. And when I was discussing with the franchise that this was my plan, because I knew there were many, many successful spouse partnerships in that French national global franchise. I also heard got my an earful of all the stories of the spousal relationships that ended um because of trying to work together. So I'm very clear that it's uh not for everybody. And I think you need to be honest with yourself and take an honest look at your relationship if that's something you're considering. Um, but for us, it was it was a powerful combination. It worked.

Nick Houpt: 38:00

Don't start a franchise to fix your marriage.

Kimberley Schafer: 38:03

Yes. Wise words.

Nick Houpt: 38:06

So, what kind of mindset do you have to have going into that with a spouse? Like you have to be open-minded, I'm sure. And then what kind of belief systems and self-talk do you have, not only just going into it with your spouse, but going into it in general of I'm gonna make this happen and I'm gonna do this?

Kimberley Schafer: 38:29

I think, I think you need to have, to your point just a moment ago, you have to have a strong relationship going in. You have to be able to, you have to be equal partners. And even though I was the CEO and Keith was the CFO, and officially I was the top of the chain, it wasn't like that in terms of how we tended to work. It was an equal partnership, very much so. Um, I think that's really important to figure out the ground rules for how that rolls and responsibilities and who decides and how's it gonna work. Also being ready and able to have tough conversations, feedback. Keith and I are very in sync and intuitive about almost everything, but there were some times we didn't agree. And to be able to have that conversation in a professional, um, not personal way is really important. Um, it's really, really important to not let a business decision get in the way of your personal relationship. The personal relationship is the most important thing when it comes to your spouse. So you just have to put the rules of engagement in place so that that's not going to be a problem.

Nick Houpt: 39:50

So if I'm if I'm a couple that's listening to this right now or watching, and we're operating a business together and we are Are finding ourselves fighting with each other, lacking in the communication. What are some practices that you have seen work besides your 10 o'clock cutoff time? Or is there anything you can think of that you would give them that advice of, hey, this could this could at least help a little bit?

Kimberley Schafer: 40:23

Fortunately, I don't think that happened much with us because when we did disagree on a business decision or on approach to something, we tended to respect each other's perspective on it, just out of principle. Even if we didn't agree, it was more important that we be aligned. Um, and we respected that. Um, so if there's something, Keith said, I just want you to know we don't agree on this. I really think it needs to be this way. I'm probably gonna shift. If I feel that way, he was probably gonna shift. But if you can't do that and it's creating conflict, it's arguments, you gotta fix that. Because that kind of discord or conflict is going to bleed into your company culture and how and the experience your customers might have in working with you, or that other people in the company might have working with you. You just have to be very, very careful about the implications of that. I think one potential solution, although fortunately we didn't have this situation, is to have sort of a mentor or sort of a board of directors type of person or people who know what it is to own the business you're in and can give wise words and help you get out of it, out of that rut of conflict. But the more you can plan for the reality that at some point you'll disagree about something. So how figure out in advance when it's not hot, figure out how you'll deal with it is time well spent.

Nick Houpt: 41:59

Okay. Now you had mentioned mentorship, and I know you're involved in some organizations doing mentorship and and different things like that, and we we believe in the power of mentorship. Can we touch on that a little bit? What if someone is operating a business or even in work, in life, in anything, what would be some reasons on why to bring on a mentor, or what are you looking for in your life of I should probably have a mentor for this?

Kimberley Schafer: 42:40

I think it's good to have in general, but I also think it's important not to force it or to have a point of view about what you want to get out of it. And I guess I'll just sort of talk through my personal history with mentorship because I've learned a lot along the way, and not everything has worked, frankly. So I mentioned I'm from big companies, and um, when I was at a certain sort of pre-executive point in my career at IBM, um, a lot of well-meaning executives who wanted to see me get to the next step would give me a mentor. They didn't discuss it with me. They would just, you know, assign me someone they thought would be great. I've just spoken to this person, they've agreed to be your mentor. Have a great, have a great time. And I didn't necessarily have a point of view on what I wanted to get out of the relationship. I knew I had to do something. Um, but I think being part of that decision and making it intentional and purposeful is really, really important. So that you're not wasting that connection and that your or time and you're really, you're both getting something out of it. So I think in the margin, as a conventional rule of thumb, mentors are good to have, but don't have one just to have one. Um, know what you want to get out of it. That would be one one thing I've learned and would say as a learning from that experience. Then when I owned my own company, it's a little lonely at the top at first, especially when you've got the weight of the world on your shoulders, it feels. Um, there was that period before Keith, my spouse, was actively involved in the business. I joined a group called 12 Mavens, which um was sort of a mastermind group that would get together once a month and across industries, no, there was no one from the same industry in the group. So everyone could give unbiased, sort of universal truths kind of advice to each other. And all the businesses were at a similar stage in their growth and profitability. So it was a very relevant group of people to know. We'd get together, have a really nice meal once a month, and spend the afternoon discussing issues, giving each other advice, brainstorming topics, et cetera. It was very, very um well facilitated. And honestly, it I looked forward to it more than anything else that month because it was a little bit of pampering. I I never got a decent hot lunch during my time as a business owner unless I was at an event or at a retreat like this one. Um, so I looked forward to it from that perspective. It was a little bit of self-care, honestly. And also I learned so, so much from those fellow business owners. So whether they thought so or not, I considered them mentors and I'm still in touch with a couple of them today. Then when our business got got kind of serious and big and at a certain level of success by our franchise standards, uh, my spouse and I were invited to join um a performance group, which is essentially the same thing. It's owners get together, they actually share each other's financials.

unknown: 46:05

Oh, wow.

Kimberley Schafer: 46:06

You look at each other's numbers, talk about motivation to grow your business. When you're looking at your numbers compared to these just monsters of success in your own franchise network, it was very motivating. I learned so, so much. It was very humbling. But anytime I had an idea that someone used, it there was no better praise or gratifying experience. So we helped each other, I like to think, although I think we reaped most of the benefit from that group. Um, and it was it was just a pleasure. So be purpose purposeful in your mentoring, do do it and take what you need from it, but make it as positive of an experience as you can, um, because it it will reap all the more reward. One uh when we were interviewing for that performance management group, um, one of the current owners said, Oh, and by the way, be sure if you're going to join this group, take the advice you're given because we don't want you in there if you're not going to. And I think that's totally fair as well. Everyone gives so much to a situation or an arrangement like that. Um, you might as well be in it to win it and to take that advice seriously. So I think that's another important thing about mentoring is be prepared to hear what's being said and to do something with it.

Nick Houpt: 47:41

In the past, I had people that would want my advice on certain things and I'd tell them and then they'd do the opposite. And I called them. I called them ass coles.

Kimberley Schafer: 47:52

It's funny that you mentioned that because um when I first worked at IBM a million years ago, I was actually a management consultant for them. And so I was a card-carrying consultant. I'd get on a plane and go wherever and work with whatever company, and it was very frustrating to do what I would say was some amazing work with some of the best and the brightest, and have it sit on a proverbial shelf once the work was done. Um, so yeah, do something with it or don't bother. I had a consulting client of mine who's also a friend, work with me just after we sold our company. He was so sweet. And he said he's a fantastic um business owner here in the Jacksonville area. And he said, Oh, I'm so glad you sold the business. Now you can help me with a few things. Which of course I did. And about six months, a year later, he met with me for the sole purpose of showing me all the things that he did that I recommended. First of all, that's so sweet and so gratifying. But it was also that's how it should be, right? If you're going to engage in that relationship, try some of these ideas on for size. Chances are they're at least worth considering, if not doing. And it was so I would do anything for this person. And even more so today, because he took the time to to consider some of my thoughts and make them happen in his business.

Nick Houpt: 49:23

Yeah. It's got to be gratifying. I so one thing I wanted to touch on with the mentor-mentee relationship is in there's so much stuff I could just keep pulling and asking you, but we're running out of time here. But one thing I want to pick your brain on with that is when you are being mentored, you had mentioned make sure it's beneficial for both parties. Being men being the mentee, what how do you benefit that mentor? You know, because there's there have been so many times I'm sitting here and I'm like, this person is pouring into me. What can I offer them? How do we shift our mindset into seeing those opportunities of, oh, I do bring value in this way, or I can help in this way? What is something like that to where someone like me is like, I can help here, you know?

Kimberley Schafer: 50:21

The first thing I would say is there is there's always something. So just look for it. There is always something the mentee can do to add value to the relationship and return the favor. There is always something hard stop. Some specific examples could be I'll I'll give an example of the mentoring I'm doing for my alma mater, Colgate University. Colgate university students, they are late teens, early 20s, trying to start a venture. You might think, what could they possibly offer me? First of all, it's gratifying. It's gratifying to be, to be helping them and to see their progress. That in itself is returning the favor in my book. But they've also um taught me some interesting things about as a marketer, um, generational differences, online, the digital world, the digital footprint, social media, things I didn't get deep into during my career, um, because those things happened after my career. So they have been very, very useful as far as that's concerned. They also, and I think any mentee can do this for their mentor, they give me feedback about how I'm doing as a mentor or what I could be doing differently or better. And that benefits me too. It's making me a stronger, better mentor. So I do think there's always, always, always something the mentee can do to return the favor. And when in doubt, just ask.

Nick Houpt: 52:00

Okay. Now, with everything you've done, parenting, businesses, businesses with your spouse, working for big corporations, having a decently sized house to downsizing, all of the things that you've been through. What does a life well balanced look like to you?

Kimberley Schafer: 52:27

Right now, a life well balanced for me, I haven't achieved it yet, but it it is tilting the balance back toward me and my needs. I have spent so, so many years and so, so many hours and calories focused on others, whether it's my children or my spouse or my clients or my colleagues or my employees. It goes on and on and on. And I've gotten less good at taking care of myself and focusing on my needs aside from those stakeholders, those very important people to me. So I honestly need to get a lot better at it, and that's part of what this period of my life is about. It's already taking some time and effort to shift and tilt the balance toward myself in a way I'm not accustomed to, but I know that it's necessary. And I know that I will be better to all of those other people if I'm starting to do more for and with myself. So that's that's balance for me right now. It's it's somewhat unfamiliar territory, but that's the journey I'm on at the moment.

Nick Houpt: 53:54

Now, is there one thing that we may not have covered or if we did cover that you want to highlight for our listeners that you don't want them to walk away without?

Kimberley Schafer: 54:09

I think it's probably the last thing I said, which is remember to take care of yourself. It's so cliched, but if you are, if you continue to find, you know, strength and gratification and joy in what you're doing, you will be better for everybody else who wants and needs some part of you.

Nick Houpt: 54:29

Okay.

Kimberley Schafer: 54:30

I think that's probably the most important thing. And I would, we've done a lot of talking about work today. I think it's also important to think about pursuits that aren't work. When you own a business or you have a really strong work ethic, or you've got a lot of great ideas, which I know you do, Nick, it's a good idea. You could, those things can become all-consuming, and it's a good idea to have some small thing that's just for you. So, for example, since we sold our company, I've always loved music. I grew up being piano and singing. I learned the electric bass in the past year. That's what I've done this year. And I'm currently in a rock band that I haven't told anyone about. Um, but that's the truth. And who would have ever thought I would be doing those things? And they have been the best thing that has happened to me in this past year. So just carving out that little space to do something new and beloved has made a big difference. So if anyone else listening out there can find a way to do the same, um, I strongly advise it.

Nick Houpt: 55:39

What great answer. I love it. Is there somewhere people can find you, social media, anything?

Kimberley Schafer: 55:47

Oh gosh, I'm a bit of a Luddite. I'm fairly quiet on social media. I have a LinkedIn profile um and I welcome people messaging me. I would love to connect with anyone.

Nick Houpt: 55:59

Yeah, and we always link the LinkedIn to the show notes.

Kimberley Schafer: 56:02

Perfect, perfect. I expect, though, I might be getting more active on social media. Something I haven't mentioned is my daughter and I um wrote a children's book this summer.

unknown: 56:14

Awesome.

Kimberley Schafer: 56:14

Best summer job for the two of us ever, inspired by our family pet, who is the only thing the entire family can agree on at any given moment. We all are always in agreement about how wonderful she is. Um, so we wrote a story, and we are much like you've experienced, we want to get on the path to publication. Um, so I think with that will come a stronger, louder voice on social media. Um, so I may have a different answer for you the next time we chat.

Nick Houpt: 56:49

Awesome, awesome. And anything I can do to help you with the book and everything, I've been through it.

Kimberley Schafer: 56:54

I want your daughter to read it.

Nick Houpt: 56:56

Oh, I will I will get a copy for sure. She loves reading books and everything. So now that we're here at the end, at the end of every episode, we do a speed round. Oh. And it's called balanced or unbalanced. And so I'm gonna ask you a question. You tell me if it is balanced or unbalanced. If you want to elaborate more, by all means. If we want to keep rolling through, we will just keep moving. Sound good?

Kimberley Schafer: 57:22

Sure. Kim Schaefer, unbalanced, but trying.

Nick Houpt: 57:25

All right. Balanced or unbalanced, taking calls during your kids' activities.

Kimberley Schafer: 57:31

I would say unbalanced. I know that's an unpopular answer to the person who sits in the sports bleachers and takes those calls. But I would offer unbalanced. I think it's important to be present.

Nick Houpt: 57:44

Agreed. Balanced or unbalanced, saying yes to new opportunities before you're ready.

Kimberley Schafer: 57:50

Oh, that's balanced and necessary.

Nick Houpt: 57:53

Yep. We had that conversation too. Working late during a growth season.

Kimberley Schafer: 58:01

Unavoidable. I think how you come out of it determines whether you're balanced or unbalanced.

Nick Houpt: 58:08

Yeah. Putting family first even when business demands more.

Kimberley Schafer: 58:14

Balanced.

Nick Houpt: 58:15

Starting over at any stage of life.

Kimberley Schafer: 58:19

That has to be balanced because I think it's one of the beautiful things about life. Yes.

Nick Houpt: 58:25

I agree. Balanced or unbalanced, letting your work define your worth.

Kimberley Schafer: 58:31

Oh. Very prevalent, but I would say it is unbalanced. There's so much more to every every human.

Nick Houpt: 58:38

Yep. Staying in a business longer than you should because you feel loyal to it.

Kimberley Schafer: 58:45

Certainly understandable. That's a tough one. Can you tell that we wrestled with this as business owners ourselves? I don't know. I think I think the answer to whether that's balanced or unbalanced depends on how you come out of it. Much like I said to the as the answer to the other.

Nick Houpt: 59:05

And it's funny because I have more I have one extra balanced or unbalanced question because I s I came up with that one and I was like, this has to be on here. And I didn't know which one to get rid of, so you got an extra one. Balanced or unbalanced, leading from instinct instead of data. Data, however you want to say it.

Kimberley Schafer: 59:27

I would say that can be balanced. Malcolm Gladwell has said that instinct actually is fed by your experiences and the data you've consumed before. So instinct, you know, it's got some data in there. It's got some truth in there. There's a reason why you've got that gut instinct. So that doesn't rule out balance in my book.

Nick Houpt: 59:56

Okay. Taking risks even when the timing Isn't perfect.

Kimberley Schafer: 1:00:01

Timing's never perfect, so that's balanced.

Nick Houpt: 1:00:04

Balanced or unbalanced, coming on the Life Well Balanced podcast.

Kimberley Schafer: 1:00:09

So balanced and so fun. Thank you for having me.

Nick Houpt: 1:00:13

Thank you. I truly appreciate you coming and hanging out with us today.

Kimberley Schafer: 1:00:18

It's been fantastic.

Nick Houpt: 1:00:19

Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. The Life Well Balanced Podcast is proudly supported by Cole PR software consultants. Cole PR helps small businesses, nonprofits, and government organizations bring their big ideas to life through custom software, AI-powered solutions, and seamless system integrations. Whether it's building smarter workflows, creating secure digital platforms, or scaling your technology with confidence, Cole PR combines global talent with practical delivery to make innovation accessible and affordable. Visit ColePrsc.com to learn more about future proof solutions built for today.